We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world
I read on windowscentral "...We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world".
Eventually, at some point. Most of industry would have been disrupted/automated.
There should be a working group of the major players/stake holders in the space working out a model of how that would work.
I work in tech and I don't see that happening for another decade and half or so.
Care to ruminate?
└── Dey well
It’s a start but not good enough. We also need a sense of accomplishment, like what do we live for. I know it’s mostly a luxury these days but in an AI powered world, it might be essential to keep people going.
These are very hard questions. Gives me the chills.
We forget how the scurry of the now keeps us in a frenzy and before you know, 2 decades have gone past and we're all playing catch up to the new world order - what world order? (I don't know and that scare me; [deep sigh])
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└── Dey well; Be well
We should have a wealth tax that is distributed to everyone, instead of taxing consumption. It's the most progressive tax possible, only taxing those with actual excess. It would work in an AI world, easing into everyone having the same amount of power instead of creating AI powered Oligarchs.
That's something I am just learning about. Interesting concept though. Would need some finessing and that goes for any sort of general consensus that is reached.
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└── Dey well; Be well
We might need one eventually. If we really see a population decline in a couple decades, it's possible they could offset each other to an extent.
Either we go artificial womb (not sure the proper word), or take better care of parents.
I 100% agree with this sentiment, though its not clear to me at all how close we are.
In general though, advanced automation like AI will disrupt jobs, and unlike previous times, you cannot educate yourself out of a superior intelligence taking your job.
This is not about moving your manual work to another segment where different manual work is not viable to automate economically: its about your mental abilities being insufficient to produce value in the economy, full stop.
If that doesn't scare you, I'm not sure what will. However, its not clear to me yet if all this coding LLM hype will end up destroying coding jobs, or creating debugging jobs.
Hear hear ...its not clear to me yet if all this coding LLM hype will end up destroying coding jobs, or creating debugging job.
I feel it is doors losing and others opening in the interim for creatives/devs who level up.
└── Dey well; Be well
Ubi is an unrealistic utopia on mutiple levels (from basic math to social dynamics). Go educate yourself please.
UBI is a dystopian hellscape. If you think otherwise you haven’t thought it through.
Sure. Where does the money come from if nobody is working?
@billy99k Great question; funding UBI is the crux of the debate.
In Nigeria, I’ve seen industries like taxi services get upended by apps like Uber and Bolt, leaving union leaders/cabals scrambling for the scraps.
AI could amplify this, automating jobs faster than new ones emerge.
One idea is taxing automated systems—say, a levy on AI-driven platforms or robots replacing workers.
This could redistribute wealth without assuming zero employment. For example, Nigeria’s government already taxes digital platforms; scaling that to fund UBI isn’t unthinkable.
What do you think about targeting automation profits specifically?
└── Yarn me
This will work in the short term, but over time, less and less companies will want to fund something that will be taxed at such a high rate.
I also think that if this much tax money is going to enable people to not work, the people paying taxes should have more control over how the money is used.
If health care is universal, more control over foods consumed risky health-related activities.
With AI/robots doing all the work, money can be created and distributed based on production and logistical efficiency.
@t-3 We share similar logic.
I would much rather have Capitalism and own my own work bots, thanks.
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Plenty of people will be working, just not everyone will make the jump to a post-AI society, especially older folks I imagine.
I seem to remember a Star Trek episode (not sure which series) where a character is talking about how they’ve evolved past the need for money. Badly paraphrased, and maybe just as badly remembered, but my thought at the time was that if no one is getting paid, how do get low level crew members to sign on? I’d much rather be an officer than scrubbing torpedo tubes.
@unnamed76ri Haha, I love the Star Trek nod! Their post-money world sounds great, but where I'm from, hustle economy/treet vendors, okada riders, shows how hard it is to imagine no one needing cash.
Even if AI automates a ton, people will still want incentives for less glamorous jobs. Maybe UBI isn’t about scrapping money but ensuring a baseline so folks aren’t stuck scrubbing metaphorical torpedo tubes.
What’s your take—could a partial UBI make “low-level” work more voluntary?
└── Yarn me
When generations of people are on UBI,and this is all they know, the system starts to require more capital and tax revenue, until it collapses.
I think one other aspect of this system is that if you are getting UBI, you give up your voting rights.
I don’t know, I won’t claim expertise on this subject. But it feels like any kind of UBI risks creating a permanent underclass of people much like current welfare programs that carry no incentive to get off said programs do.
Every economic system has its flaws and can be exploited. Capitalism has been responsible for lifting billions of people out of poverty. But it’s also been corrupted by cronyism.
The coming AI revolution will likely cause capitalism’s issues to be more pronounced.
Isn't it that you sign up for Star Fleet, go through school, take tests, and then get assigned to a position?
Not everybody is in Star Fleet, so I assume people want the ability to travel the stars and they'd be happy enough scrubbing torpedo tubes.
How about we tag-team the dull tasks and the thrilling ones? We’ll scrub those tubes and dive into an exciting starship project. Welcome to our socialistic tech society!
2022 "We need to do a socialism bc climate change!" 2025 "We need to do a socialism bc AI!"
TBC IMO human caused climate change and other forms of environmental damage are very real and worthy of our best solutions, but the idea that collectivism solves environment, that collectivist govts would never decide to damage the environment in pursuit of short term aims is laughable.
.... which is not really about UBI, which the post is about.
@vouwfietsman Staying on topic;had any thoughts as to what happens if/when this occurs?
I think about it a lot I won't lie. I know certain jobs will be around for a while but, the general populace will be a different matter.
└── Yarn me; Lets talk, I'm genuinely interested